Today, I'm connecting with Sophie Mckay, Head of Marketing, Asia Pacific and Japan at Notion.
**Join us at our first-ever podcast meetup in Sydney. Info below**
Today, I'm connecting with Sophie Mckay, Head of Marketing, Asia Pacific and Japan at Notion.
Sophie’s career has been all about scaling tech brands across the Asia-Pacific region (APAC). Before joining Notion six months ago, she spent almost a decade at Qualtrics—starting as the first marketing hire in APAC and growing the team to 17, launching across six regions. In her words: “Every country or region we went into felt like a startup within a startup.”
Now, she’s crafting Notion’s brand story and building her dream marketing team for APAC.
In this episode, we dial into:
Thanks to Kelly Souders and Kirsty Poynter for helping shape this interview and for your time on the pre-interview chats.
Connect with Sophie:
Resources mentioned in the ep:
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Connecting with Sophie Mckay, Head of Marketing, Asia Pacific & Japan at Notion:
[Note: This transcript is AI-generated via Descript. Please expect typos]
[00:00:00]
Laura: Today's guest has been a little busy lately building a full blown notion Wonderland If you're based in Australia chances are you clock notions Australia launch from painted murals to cafe notion popups to influencer collabs and in real life celebrations with the notion faithful Fun fact Millions of Aussie's were already notion fans Before the launch even hit what's beautiful is we all got a front row seat to help Sophie builds the brand in a new market Bravo Sophie She's no stranger to the Asia Pacific and Japan region either before Notion She rolled out Qualtrics across six markets Every country or region she enters It feels like a startup within a startup and she [00:01:00] loves it all of this and way more inside today's episode Oh and a quick shout out Huge thanks to Kelly Souders and Kirsty Poynter for helping me shape this interview and for your time on the pre-interview chats
Laura Nicol: Sophie welcome to calling Operator How are you
Sophie: I'm good I'm good Thanks so much for having me here I'm really excited and thanks for thinking of me
Laura Nicol: Of course Well welcome to Australia Notion you've just been having lots of celebrations so how has that all been
Sophie: it's been good It's been a lot obviously like I've only been at Notion for just over six months and been building out the team and this sort of launch moment but I think what's been really special is having our customers and the community so involved in the launch moment Just seeing everyone's sort of notion love and how much love there is for Notion out here in Australia has been Really nice
Laura Nicol: that's so exciting And we're actually [00:02:00] hosting an event with you next week by the time this comes out So very excited for that
Sophie: Yes I heard like it's already sold out so I'm very excited to come and meet more people
Laura Nicol: So let's get to know you Who are you beyond your job title
Sophie: I am a mama of two young boys who are three and five and I'm a wife to an incredible husband who's actually a pilot and so my life is filled with lots of logistics between working full-time managing the kids I kind of get a kick out of all of the logistics though I grew up on the northern beaches of Sydney so very much my life is a beach whether it's in winter or summer on the weekends after work really enjoy being at the beach And then we also have a farm out in Mudgee so I kind of have this like beach and country lifestyle I'm very much not a city person like outside of weekdays of being in the office She won't catch me there whatsoever I think if I have time I love [00:03:00] going for runs doing Pilates and having a good drink with friends
Laura Nicol: does your pilot hubby travel long haul or short haul or
Sophie: at the moment short haul So day is a different day in terms of his roster
Laura Nicol: The kids just must be like at dinner where have you been today
Sophie: Um yeah if dad's there for dinner does like at least one overnighter a week And so I think they're just used to that though I mean he's always not always been a pilot but always been a pilot in their life and so they're just used to every day is different
Laura Nicol: So I'm gonna address the elephant in the room straight away How do you juggle at all
Sophie: one of my girlfriends once said to me if anyone could have a husband as a pilot it is kind of you I've always been an incredibly organized person I'm sort of the one who organizes all of our friends social events our getaway and so I think it's just being really [00:04:00] organized thinking ahead but then also needing to just go with the flow get lot of delays being a a pilot and so you just need to make adjustments And you know without my mom and my husband's mom I probably couldn't do what I do So I'm very lucky with the support network that I have around me I don't have to use nannies and whatnot I have a lot of family help around
Laura Nicol: Oh that's so nice So nice so then what matters to you
Sophie: two things One being really happy and sort of proud in what I'm doing from a work perspective Like I do find that I need to feel fulfilled I'm doing in work but I think what's more important is my family and friends And I think I do really struggle when I'm having an imbalance of work and life and I'm always checking in with myself on what is that work life balance and making sure I'm creating that space and that time to be spending quality time with my friends and family
Laura Nicol: actually I [00:05:00] spoke to your friend Kirsty before this chat and she was like reeling off all these organizational traits about you booking weekends but was just like we're always together It's so great
Sophie: Yeah I've got friends that go back to my high school years and that's a lot of my close friends still I'm a big believer in really trying to get us together on a frequent basis even though we all sort of live in different places now But yeah like to keep that going
Laura Nicol: what has parenting toddlers taught you about being a better operator
Sophie: Oh ruthless prioritization I think before kids you just you have all this time to yourself It doesn't matter if you work after hours you can kind of I feel like I could take on anything and I'd find the time to do it because you know I didn't have a second job as such of being a mom And so I think when you have kids that time after work is your second job of looking after the kids you know making sure they're getting picked up and fed and all [00:06:00] of that And so you just all of a sudden don't have all that time in the world and you do have to get really good prioritization and focus on the things that are really going to move the needle that would be one I think the second thing is They've really taught me to slow down and appreciate the really small things you know I'll be rushing to get them to kindergarten or to school and it's a huge rush in the morning and then all of a sudden they'll see something like an ant or a bug and they're like it's bug mom And it's just that curiosity and really appreciate those little things in life that when you are operating in such a fast speed you kind of skip over and don't appreciate and then lastly like try not to sweat the small stuff yeah just it adds a different perspective I think to you and how you look at work and um not sweating those things I guess those little things that feel so big in the moment and getting caught up in that
Laura Nicol: I love that example [00:07:00] of the ant It's like where's it going today That's so good
Sophie: Oh the amount of times that we stop and look at things like that is is great It's
Laura Nicol: Yeah I think ruthless prioritization is always a learning journey do you have any tactics or tools that you use to help you do that
Sophie: big thing is focus on the output rather than the input I like to start a quarter with going okay what are the metrics that I want to have achieved by the end of the quarter and then starting to go through what are the things that we can do to achieve those metrics And then constantly looking at that every single week of are they the right things that we should be focusing on Do we need to cut things out Do we need to make one tactic actually so much bigger because we are actually going to see bigger results and so it's setting out a goal but constantly reviewing the how to get to that goal and being okay to change and reprioritize as you go throughout the quarter or the year And giving your the [00:08:00] team that space to do that as well and it being okay to throw out something that you thought was gonna be great try something fail fast move through and double down when you need to
Laura Nicol: career-wise so if you think back to the start of your career where did you imagine you'd end up
Sophie: I had no idea what I wanted to do when I finished school I had no idea all I knew was that I quite liked the look of corporate life and so I didn't go to university after high school I jumped straight into a corporate job I'm actually very thankful for the type of organization that I joined It's a very small sort of local company but I jumped in as a receptionist and then throughout the three or four years I was there I really got to do every single part of the business customer service marketing sales executive assistants operations like into factories and so I think it just gave me a really good perspective on Business as a whole and then when I left that organization I wanted to go into [00:09:00] a larger company cause it was it was quite small and I didn't have any vision for going into tech I just that was the next company that I joined and I went in as an executive assistant again because I just wanted to be across a business rather than I I still didn't know where I wanted to go and then in that role I found myself just naturally starting to take on more and more marketing projects and embedding myself into the marketing team And that's where I kind of then went into And then at that point I went okay this is where I want to grow my career And so I started uni at that point So I continued working full time and then I actually went and started to do a degree which was completely online And at the time there wasn't a lot of universities offering degrees online and so I was able to do my degree in a year and a half and work full time And I think being able to apply what I was learning and doing my assessments on the company I was at just allowed me to sort of fast track my degree from [00:10:00] there just continued into marketing Did never left tech I think once you're in tech you never leave it and yeah so I didn't really take that natural path of jumping straight into university I really wanted to get a feel for a company and where I might want to go and double down in my career
Laura Nicol: and how does that compare to where you are now
Sophie: once I started to get into marketing it was for an a ANZ-based business and I really wanted to expand further than a ANZ in my next career move And so I wanted to go across apac I had a lot of interest in building into different cultures and languages I was also in an IT infrastructure organization and really wanted to go into SaaS as that was sort of that next wave of technology trends And so that's when I then landed into Qualtrics spent nine years there after that I really wanted to go into sort of that next wave of tech which what I see is ai and so that's where notion came into [00:11:00] play and start building again Really
Laura Nicol: Yeah Oh how good And we will get to Notion shortly but on Qualtrics Like you say you had a near decade experience there Scaling from the first marketing hire in APAC to a team of 17 launching the brand in ANZ Southeast Asia Japan greater China South Korea and India It's like whoa When is that list gonna stop what stands out as the biggest lessons from that time
Sophie: a decade is a long time to spend at a
Laura Nicol: Mm
Sophie: Really kept me There was every country or region we went into it felt like a startup within a startup I was building and launching again and I've really loved that sort of side of marketing and so I think something that Qualtrics really taught me I essentially launched and built a brand six times and so I think what it taught me was how to create a bit of a playbook to go and do that as a rinse and repeat motion but adjust [00:12:00] for the different cultures and languages
Laura Nicol: you're so right that it is like launching a startup multiple times from your lessons and from your learnings what is a mental checklist that you have when you're building a new region or a team from scratch
Sophie: Yeah I think when launching into a new region I kind of follow three key things One is to set the foundations in place Two then have your launch moment and then three make sure you can have continuous momentum when setting the foundations in place like there's no point in going out to market and having a big brand moment if you don't have a way for people to find you in a local sense or you know an SDR team to capture the leads and a sales go and turn that into revenue And so with setting the foundations it's really about making sure that you have your websites set up localized you've got your SDRs in place and they're trained You've got your lead flows and then your sales team to take that on [00:13:00] And then once you have those foundations in place then having that launch moment and I'm a big believer in a really integrated moment Like you can't just go out with one press release or one article very much having a lot of different moments in market that kind of happen all together to create that big sort of ground swell and noise in the market and then once you've had that you need to be ready to go with the next campaign you can't sort of have that moment and then start planning the next campaign you're going to have too big of a gap
Laura Nicol: Mm-hmm
Sophie: momentum going So yeah be ready to go with those campaigns is sort of my three touch approach
Laura Nicol: I also love that you call them launch moments I think that's really nice you're really clear on those three points Was there a moment during those multiple regional launches that went wrong that gave you more of a concrete playbook
Sophie: if I think back to my time at Qualtrics when I first started there we started with Australia and New Zealand [00:14:00] and we did that for almost two years And then we went to Singapore for Southeast Asia and did that for a year And then we went to Japan for a year and launched there and got the momentum going And then we went into three regions South Korea India greater China all at once And I feel like doing multiple markets at once just spreads yourself too thin your budget too thin and you don't have enough to really make that moment matter in market lesson there is really to focus on a single market at one point in time rather than trying to go after every single market Especially with APAC being so many different countries that you can go after in so much opportunity you just need to be able to make that moment really matter
Laura Nicol: And was the year your sweet spot there or was that just a coincidence
Sophie: just a coincidence rapid growth Yeah
Laura Nicol: And then so when it comes to the team side what were some of the biggest challenges [00:15:00] in growing and scaling those teams
Sophie: I think hiring was really hard you just really need to make sure you get the right people especially those first hires onto the team to be really effective and able to continue to scale and execute quickly
it actually took me 18 months to find my first hire on marketing team at Qualtrics nearly killed me because I was obviously executing everything but I really really wanted to focus on getting that right a hard thing about hiring in an organization where you don't have a lot of brand presence cause you're just starting out and you need to create that brand awareness is you don't have a huge amount of people applying And so I actually had to proactively go and find the right people that I wanted on the team and then almost go and sell to them quite a bit And so that just takes a lot more time but it's really important to make sure you find the best talent for the team
Laura: I have a quick ask [00:16:00] This show is all about creating space for tech operators and learning how to be a better operator along the way Please help me reach the builder's doers and multipliers behind great founders By hitting subscribe or follow wherever you're listening Thank you
Laura Nicol: So then that was hiring your first person I imagine that the team grew quite rapidly from there what other challenges did you experience as you started building out that team and I guess building out those regions
Sophie: because I was the first marketeer and had to do everything myself and I'm naturally a very hands-on marketing person I think for me something I had to learn more as a leader is to really let go and delegate and hand things over for the team to just completely run and own themselves rather than quickly jumping in and and running that report or like actually showing them this is how you do it so I think I just had to transition quite a bit as a executor and a manager And then I think as the team grew [00:17:00] bigger became like a manager of managers And so making sure that we are able to keep up the pace and the layers don't slow us down was a really important thing that I was always checking in with And it wasn't just the Local team growing It was also the global team as well And so making sure we had that constant communication and we were able to keep running as fast as what we did When you're a really small team and you can just chat and say Hey can we get that done You know had to keep up with that pace
Laura Nicol: how did you check yourself on the delegation piece
Sophie: I would often catch myself running a report and getting the number for someone rather than showcasing them this is how you run it this is the insights that you can find Or just jumping into even Marketo and fixing something rather than going like this is how you could do it So it was just constantly checking in with myself and making sure I gave the team the space to learn and take it on and then become [00:18:00] fast at those elements as well
Laura Nicol: You're so right It is around just giving them the space as a very hands-on operator myself I find myself often just being like oh this will take me two minutes
Sophie: exactly And that's the hard thing is oh it'll take me 10 minutes to show you but it'll take me two seconds to go and find it putting that time in upfront to make sure you're really setting the team up for success
Laura Nicol: what G2M Motions delivered for you in these new markets
Sophie: what I've mentioned before is really having that integrated approach integrated approach in all those different marketing channels that go live at the same time and have that same message but then also on your sales front your SDR front like there's no point in marketing talking about something out in market and your SDRs and your sales team not trained on that same message You all need to be singing from the same sheet as such and I think that's really important when going into those new markets to make sure you've got that true alignment and can make that [00:19:00] moment
Laura Nicol: And you come from a B2B background as well so you'll be well versed in sales enablement
Sophie: Yes Spent most of my time until notion in B2B marketing So it's been fun to do a bit more on the consumer front at Notion
Laura Nicol: Yeah nice I remember I went from my first tech and startup role being B2C and then I jumped into a B2B role to work out if it was a space for me And I was like maybe not
Sophie: Yeah
Laura Nicol: was so much sales and enablement I was just like ah I wanna get to the creative bits
Sophie: Yeah I always wonder what would be the harder transition going from B2C to B2B or B2B to B2C cause it is it's very different worlds of marketing I think
Laura Nicol: okay so I kind of wanna dive a tiny bit deeper into the team building across regions cause you've got different cultures you've got different languages different barriers than building in English speaking markets thinking about your time managing across these different [00:20:00] APAC and East Asian cultures what's something that changed your mind about what it takes to being a great manager
Sophie: it was when we went to Japan we hired my first marketing person in Japan and started to really go deeper in our marketing efforts And I think that really allowed me to appreciate the differences and how it can be a very different go to market motion in the likes of Japan there's things that I would never do in Australia from a marketing standpoint but that was a very important part of marketing in Japan And so I think for me I had to kind of really trust and listen And I've always gone with the approach of hire someone who is so much better than you in the field that you're hiring for and almost someone that scares you it's just gonna bring the team up It's gonna be a great hire Being able to trust and focusing on the outcomes rather than the how and letting them [00:21:00] do things in very different ways to how I might have gone and done something because that's the way that it might work in the likes of Japan or South Korea
Laura Nicol: say if I was a early stage company probably seed to Series A in Australia do you have any advice based on like how you got to know those cultures and those regions and know those nuances Do you have any advice for those building in that stage today
Sophie: you need to go to the country to experience it when we launched into Japan and same with South Korea I actually would go into those new countries and do it myself before I hired someone in marketing to then continue the marketing motion and run marketing for that country And so I would partner really closely with our sort of GM or head of that country to really understand what we need and the different cultures and languages and how things should show up And I would do that myself so that I really got that deep understanding And then once [00:22:00] we got to a certain size or momentum I'd hire someone to do that marketing in the country but I I'm very appreciative of the time that I spent actually executing and doing it myself to really deeply understand how marketing works in those different countries
Laura Nicol: And then I'm sure you would've been building alongside other functional experts as part of that launch how would you build that team culture and that vibe between all those different regional offices
Sophie: yeah it's not easy to do because you've got different cultures you're not in person you are on zooms and virtual meetings and so It's finding time to not just have a meeting which is virtual where you jump straight into here's the things that we need to know or these the things that we need to get done But taking a moment to learn what was your weekend wins like really understanding like someone on the team as a person first before work also did quite a [00:23:00] few times insights profile exercise where we go through and understand like what are our colors and what motivates us and all of that And share those profiles back so we get to know each other as individuals and how we operate rather than just focusing on the work and you know the metrics and the activities It's really getting to know each other as individuals really allowing for space and that time on team meetings to have that as a virtual moment
Laura Nicol: I'm getting a theme from you moments let's get into your role at Notion today you've been there for six months How would you describe your work there so far
Sophie: essentially running notions marketing across apac that includes everything from building the notion brand awareness to getting market adoption with as many notion users across consumers and business through to creating pipeline for our sales team
Laura Nicol: And what has been a standout moment from your launch [00:24:00]
Sophie: Something that surprised me and was really nice was How much notion love there is like coming It's unique We've come to Australia and we actually had millions of users before we even set up a team here in Australia so seeing that community love and really have the community and our customers be part of the launch was awesome I think that was a really special part of it
Laura Nicol: And such a flip from your last role where like if we go back to your first hire in your last role trying to pitch them because this is the brand that we're building to now you've probably got people fighting to be on the team et cetera like such a different transition for you
Sophie: So different So different Yeah I'm not having to go out and find who we want We've just been we've been flooded which is really nice
Laura Nicol: And how did you hear about Notion coming to Australia
Sophie: it was through someone who referred me into the role and I hadn't heard of [00:25:00] Notion beforehand I'm very embarrassed to say that I didn't use Notion before I joined notion
Laura Nicol: and now you're like uh where would my life be
Sophie: no honestly and it wasn't until I met with Andrew McCarthy who leads the region where I kind of went I really want to join this company He's very inspirational he's also a dad of three kids and so I just felt like he really understood the whole working life as a mom
Laura Nicol: it's my understanding you're the first marketing hire in APAC and now you're helping launch the region what's worked well in building the reading from scratch so far I know you've just launched so so far
Sophie: so I'm actually not the first marketing hire here in apac very unique journey of notion is that we started in Japan about four years ago as the first country We went and set up an office and built out the team and so I have a few marketing people in Japan already and then we went into South Korea and again I've got some marketing folks there as well And so now we're just starting [00:26:00] up the rest of apac So very unique for a US headquartered tech company coming into apac Normally you start in Sydney or Singapore and then sort of grow from there and Japan or Korea might be your last countries you go into I think that's just very unique notion because we have such a huge consumer base coming into Australia and having millions of users already using notion has been incredible to then go and expand beyond and have the consumers be part of our launch
Laura Nicol: could your peers in Japan and South Korea as an example teach you anything about the region based on their learning so far Or is the rest of APAC quite unique in that you actually had to start from scratch
Sophie: no I've definitely learned from those marketing teams there and how they came into market and what they've done and the different tactics and what worked well So there was certainly things that I could learn from but Japan and South Korea are very different markets to [00:27:00] Australia and so really tapping into what I felt was gonna work well for Australia And so it was a bit of a mix I think of both but it was it was really nice to hear and learn what did work well in those regions rather than having to just completely start from scratch
Laura Nicol: what did work well in Japan and South Korea for notion
Sophie: I think it's actually quite similar to Australia because again we had such a strong following So where are all of the users Where do we have a huge uptick of notion already And then go and build out the team locally on the ground to then get closer to those customers and so I think it's quite similar to Australia where they already have that consumer love and really having the community be part of launch I think that's something that I haven't seen for an enterprise tech company is that community led motion is amazing where you have these notion ambassadors who love the brand so much that they want to become an ambassador and go and run their [00:28:00] own marketing activities whether it be events or teaching people online how to use notion it's just incredible I I kind of see the community as that extension to the marketing team
Laura Nicol: Yeah That's so good I think you touched on this before this being your first B2C role but I'd love to know so far what stretched you as a leader
Sophie: definitely that B2C part it is a much more creative mindset of marketing there's different tactics like I wouldn't necessarily go and do out of home ads for B2B Tech company have always been incredibly focused in exactly who we're going after and targeted and so I think just thinking differently and really trying to quickly learn that consumer model and then how does that consumer model then actually lead into the B2B side of things as well And having that B two C two B is really important for notion and unique
Laura Nicol: I'm sorry if we've covered it already but I just wanna ask explicitly what do you love [00:29:00] about APAC as a region What's so special Like you've built here so many times on repeat What lights you up about this region
Sophie: it is so diverse every country is so different and so I think I just love the challenge of really having to adapt your marketing and your mix and your message to make sure it truly lands in each country in each region I think APAC is different to EMEA where the countries are so close and you can jump on a train and be in another country within an hour whereas within apac it's so diverse it takes me 10 hours to go and see my team in Japan and just the challenges that come with that and the opportunities
Laura Nicol: on the topic of building from scratch more than once what are the signals that you look for That it is time to scale or pivot
Sophie: really knowing where the business is heading very much going with a nail it and scale it approach So really nailing where you are currently [00:30:00] and making sure you are then ready to take that next country or that next step But it's not just marketing taking that it's the whole company so just really having that close partnership with the business and and knowing where things are going so that you can be prepared to move with that and not be on a different sort of page in terms of plans and strategies
Laura Nicol: actually I spoke to one of your colleagues Kelly who head Cs and she shared the story that in SF when you were there for onboarding on day one she said that you'd already had your two year strategy mapped out which I just love so much But I'd love to know where does that type of clarity and preparation come from
Sophie: definitely wasn't quite two years When I joined Qualtrics I spent my first sort of two or three weeks In the Sydney office in region really understanding where we were at what we needed and with Notion My first week was going to [00:31:00] be in San Francisco so I really wanted to make sure that I got an understanding of APAC and what we really needed before I went there And so I proactively kind of set up these sessions with each of the leaders to really understand our customers the market what do we need from a marketing standpoint so that I didn't go over with a two year strategy but I had a bit of a framework and thinking of what I sort of needed I'm a big believer in going into something with Something for people to react to rather than using the time to create something or discuss something from scratch And so that just allowed me to kind of sense check am I in the right direction How do I actually go and get this done who do I need to bring on the journey so that when I came back two weeks later I sort of had an approved plan ready to roll and I could hit the ground executing and running
Laura Nicol: this really resonates with what [00:32:00] Kelly said She said that you've just got this reputation of setting a high bar not by demanding it but by embodying it And what I get from that is that you're just like naturally working at such a high level that everyone around you wants to keep pace and keep up a couple of examples that she gave was that you skipped your own seat at an exec dinner so the event would run as smoothly and then your customers at your launch moment as you call it said our only goal was not to let Sophie down this says to me that you've shaped a unique leadership style to who you are as a human how have you shaped that and how have you got clarity on the type of leader that you want to be
Sophie: I mean very kind words you Kelly I've always been about try and bring people on the journey with you rather than dictating this is what it is like constantly getting feedback into my thinking Um And what I feel like we should go and do just so that people are brought in and understand the why behind what you're doing I [00:33:00] think something that I will always be is that no matter how senior you are or how senior I get nothing is too small for me a big believer in no one saying that's not my job and you know I like to be in it with the team whether that's putting together swag packs or helping with registration at events or whatever it might be no job is too small I think and really empathizing with the team and how much things do really take to get done I don't think I sort of went this is the leader that I want to be I just I don't know That's very kind Words of Kelly
Laura Nicol: And have you learned that from somebody that was your manager or has it just come quite natural to you
Sophie: I've learned that from not direct managers always but leaders in companies definitely there was a lot of that at Qualtrics that I learned from I think it just naturally happens in being such a hands-on person [00:34:00] happy to do whatever you need to do to get the job done or to grow the business that just sort of comes naturally to me to be hands-on
Laura Nicol: It is so funny your notion AI keeps watching me Like cause it's in the corner of our doc and it's just like
Sophie: It's thinking it's waiting for you
Laura Nicol: being dependable detail orientated and thoughtful are a few words that your colleagues describe as your superpowers But if you had to name them for yourself what would you say your superpowers or genius zones are As an operator
Sophie: I think multitasking I've just always had to be doing a lot of different things because I've started in you know just myself or always been in small teams and so being able to work on a lot of different things at once and try and keep all those balls up in the air without dropping them and then I think also being able to push through any blockers I'll sort of a approach a situation with two or three different routes that we [00:35:00] could take to that I I'm always constantly progressing things and not letting perfection sort of get in the way of progress really like to see things constantly moving I get very frustrated when things are held still or unblocked somewhere So I'm just constantly looking at okay how do we keep things moving which then leads into like that speed of executing and building things
Laura Nicol: And what kind of learning journey do you think you are on to develop your skills currently
Sophie: Yeah definitely on the B2C front that's I'm sort of learning the most at the moment notion is also very PLG first company and so that's been really fun to learn more in that space Like I've had experience at Qualtrics but not as much of what notion is as a PLG company and then I think also something that I'm learning a lot more of is true Async working as you can imagine at Notion we use Notion very well and everything is documented and we have a lot less meetings [00:36:00] and things are captured on a document for you to then collaborate on I love it but it's just been a shift in you can't wait for a meeting to find out information It's there You've just gotta proactively always be working through the docs which Is awesome I think you can actually operate so much faster and having a global team And then the rest of my marketing team is in Japan and Korea and so I think it's just such a great way to work
Laura Nicol: I actually dunno what I would do about notion So thank you you said PLG
Sophie: PLG product led growth Sorry
Laura Nicol: So product led growth for anybody that didn't know looking back what's been the toughest moment of your career so far
Sophie: honestly probably right now I think when I joined Qualtrics didn't have kids and I There's a lot of work there's a lot of energy that goes into starting out a marketing function and a brand and so I think right now just being [00:37:00] able to juggle and not have endless time to work on things and really being able to make sure the time that I spend with my kids is quality time and I'm not distracted by work which is when you've got a million things happening it's really hard to sort of mentally check out for a moment to be present with the kids but I think just creating that work life balance is hard It's it's a juggle and every day I'm learning And my son my eldest started school this year so that's like a whole new different way of managing things and having school pick up and drop off and everything So yeah to be honest like right now is probably one of the toughest moments in my career but I'm really enjoying learning how I can navigate that and make both sides of the world happen
Laura Nicol: And do you feel supported day to day through all this change and from the company
Sophie: definitely One of the big reasons I joined [00:38:00] Notion was when I met with Andrew McCarthy who has three young kids himself and I could just see that he puts family first
traffic from both ways because of the northern beaches I think it's just all about the outcome that you achieve rather than the how you do it
Laura Nicol: Yeah totally And it shouldn't have to be a choice of one or the other So I'm so happy that you are in an environment that you can thrive and learn and still have all the family time
Sophie: trying trying
Laura Nicol: You are like just keep swimming
Sophie: I honestly say that all the time to myself of finding Nemo Just keep swimming swimming Swimming Just keep swimming Swimming
Laura Nicol: Oh totally And it's why community's so important to [00:39:00] have those peers around you building companies it's tough it's amazing Tech is amazing but it's tough too
Sophie: It yeah it is Yeah But I couldn't do what I do without my mom Honestly She helps out so much She's my son's kindie teacher so I think she actually sees my son more than what I see in him But she's amazing She's like the most patient and beautiful person so yeah very thankful for her
Laura Nicol: Oh here's to you Mum If you're listening we're gonna look ahead to the future now what's your take on the future of the APAC startup ecosystem and why is it so important for global growth
Sophie: Sydney is such a strong startup ecosystem Like I almost see it becoming Silicon Sands You know how you've got Silicon Valley and then you've got Utah which is Silicon Slopes It's like where Silicon Sands I think we've just got so much innovation coming out of Australia and the startup ecosystem being so strong and connected like it's very community driven And so I think there's [00:40:00] just so much support there from people to learn from and build your business and it's beautiful It's awesome
Laura Nicol: I love that so much That's so good Silicon Sands It's got a ring to it
Sophie: It does
Laura Nicol: long term what do you want for yourself whether that's for you as a leader a builder or even outside of work
Sophie: I love building things from scratch I love having that challenge of starting from a clean slate you know I said that's the reason I was at Qualtrics for so long because it always felt like a startup within a startup I'm there now doing it again at Notion I think it's gonna become kind of my thing you know with my husband being a pilot I'd love to eventually get to a point where maybe I'm consulting if I'm fortunate enough to get to that and I can really work to my own flexibility and just be able to jump onto an international trip that he is doing and and having that flexibility And especially as the boys get older and [00:41:00] they start to jump on trips with him like I don't want to miss out on those moments in life as well So definitely building things out starting from scratch in whatever way that might be I really enjoy that So we'll see where that takes me
Laura Nicol: I've not seen this story play out too much in the people that I've spoken to so far so I'm really excited for people to learn from you and keep following along on that journey as you rinse and repeat and talking about APAC as a whole is there a operator or a leader that you think more people should know about
Sophie: someone that I love seeing on LinkedIn is Carrie Ball she's currently at rippling She leads talent acquisition Rippling have done a huge amount of hiring over the last sort of 18 months but I think she's just really creating a human element to the recruitment process and her posts are hilarious and so I think she would be someone really fun to follow and someone to maybe come onto the podcast about [00:42:00] building out teams in APAC from scratch
Laura Nicol: amazing I've not heard of her so can't wait to follow along we are going to jump into our quick fire round So these will just be short and sharp answers and this segment was inspired by Harry Uffindell So if you do ever have any suggestions for the podcast and what you'd like to see please feel free to suggest and I always try and build it into the production Are you ready
Sophie: Yeah Let's do it
Laura Nicol: best tech stack for operators
Sophie: I mean I'm a little bit biased here but notion of course it's such a great tool that can be used across the whole company
Laura Nicol: One book framework or tool you swear by
Sophie: I hate reading so I'm actually going to say Blinkist has been amazing in just getting straight to the point on the key messages from a book and listening to it in 15 to 20 minutes It's great
Laura Nicol: That's so interesting I would've put you down as a reader what's [00:43:00] helped you level up lately
Sophie: I think just always focusing on the metrics not just the inputs
Laura Nicol: A skill where every operator should master
Sophie: rapid execution and constantly finding ways to just unblock and move forward
Laura Nicol: A leader you admire
Sophie: my husband
Laura Nicol: cute Coolest way You've used AI recently
Sophie: honestly it feels like AI is just a way of working It's almost the norm now feel very fortunate notion Obviously we have it embedded throughout the platform so I use it in everything that I do I don't think an hour goes by that I'm not using ai and so I don't know if I have a unique or cool way of using ai It's just how you do work these days I think
Laura Nicol: Do you actually have a good case study on how Notion uses AI that we can link to the show notes
Sophie: we just released a case study with OpenAI which is perfect
Laura Nicol: Oh I did see that actually loved the video one piece of advice should love to [00:44:00] pass on
Sophie: startups are full on just make sure that you're always having a really good laugh every single day and if you are not change up what you're doing
Laura Nicol: And then last one what's the most creative way you've used notion outside of work
Sophie: my use case is boring in comparison to what I hear from our community and our notion ambassadors I think just how I manage my kids logistics and my life of my husband being a pilot is all managed on notion Keeps me sane
Laura Nicol: I love it You're like I've never used this tool before And now like your whole life every segment of your life
Sophie: Yes yes
Laura Nicol: So good
So then just to finish off we'd like to focus around mental wellness So as we all are working together to become better operators what's a tactic or a mindset that helps you stay grounded
Sophie: Get to know the people you work with as humans first before work I think that's really important and then also coming back to making sure you're [00:45:00] having a good laugh every day I think that keeps you sane and if you're not then change what you're doing Life's just too short not to be really enjoying it
Laura Nicol: Awesome Well Sophie thank you so much for your time today Where can people connect with you after this conversation
Sophie: I think LinkedIn would probably be the best place
Laura Nicol: Awesome Sophie McKay on LinkedIn